Blogger Tricks

Saturday, November 21, 2015

Lipi Debate - Compromise Formula

நாகரி வெறியர்களுக்கு ஓர் தாழ்மையான வேண்டுகோள் (நடு நிலையானவர்களே என்னை மன்னிக்கவும்-என் வேதையின் உச்சக்கட்ட வெளிப்பாடே இந்த பதிவு)
கிளிப்பிள்ளை போல் சொல்வதையே திரும்பத் திரும்ப சொல்வதை/பேசுவதை விட்டுவிட்டு பள்ளிகளில் நம் மொழியை ச் சொல்லிகொடுக்க என்ன செய்ய வேண்டும், எது முடியும் அதை ப் பற்றி மட்டும் பேசுங்கள், எழுதுங்கள் அதுவே இன்றைய தேவை செய்யமாட்டீரகளே! சொல்லமாட்டீர்களே ! இதைத்தானே நான் திருமபத் திரும்ப எழுதி் வருகிறேன். முதலையும்..............னும் கொண்டது விடாது. இது ஊர் அறிந்த விசயம். ம.சபைக்கு வெகுவாக வக்காலத்து வாங்கும் உங்களால் (நாகரி வெறியர்களால்) நம் மொழியை பள்ளிகளில் புகுத்த அந்த சபையினரை க் கொண்டு செய்ய வைக்கமுடியுமா? பதில் சொல்லுங்கள்; சொல்ல மாட்டீர்கள், காரணம் சொல்ல முடியாது; இத்ற்கான காரணத்தையும் நானே வெவ்வேறு இடங்களில் சொல்லிஉள்ளேன். ம.ச.விற்கு மொழி பற்றிய அக்கரை ஏதும் -ஏன் சிறிதும் இல்லை; மறுக்கச்சொல்லுங்களேன்,பார்ப்போம். மேடை ஏறுதல், மாலை , போர்வை இவற்றை ப்பெறுதல், பாரட்டுப்பெறுதல் இவற்றை விளம்பரம்செய்தல் தவிர இவர்களுக்கு , மக்கள், மொழி என்பதைப்பற்றி எல்லாம் சிந்திக்க நேரம் ஏது? 1920 முதல் இவர்கள் என்ன செய்தார்கள். 1969-ல் தமிழக அரசு சௌராஷ்டிர மொழியை பள்ளிகளில் சொல்லிகொடுக்க வழி வகை அரசு ஆணை மூலம் செய்ததே ,இந்த தகவலாவது இந்த சபையினர்க்கு த் தெரியுமா? இராமராய் ஆதரவளர்கள் செயலில் ஈடுபடுவர்; நாகரி வெறியர்களோ பேசிப்பேசியே காலததை ஓட்டுபவர்கள்; (95 ஆண்டுகள்) ‘மனோகராவில் வந்த வசனைத்தைப்போல் ‘ஆண்டவன் புண்ணியத்தில் உன் வியாதியும் நீடித்து என் உத்தியோகமும் நீடிக்கவேண்டியது’ இந்த சபையின் மிக உயர்ந்த இலட்சியம்;உன்னத குறிக்கோள். நம் சௌராஷ்டிர இளைஞர்களுக்கும் இது பற்றி அறியாதோர்க்கும் என் கடமையாக் இந்த தகவலை தருகிறேன். ச்ந்தேகம் இருந்தால் உங்கள் (அல்லது நீங்கள் அறியும்) பெரியோர்களிட்டம் கேட்டு த்தெரிந்து கொள்ளுங்கள், நான் எழுதியுள்ளது உண்மையா பொய்யா என்று
Comments
D.l. Sivakumar Why do you want to throw a stone at a neighbor's house from inside your glass house? Won't they label you and other RR advocates as fanatics? I understand your frustration but this Lipi's use is not a fight where one can win over other.... Let us all have to remind ourselves the basic lesson on reaching Compromise that we learnt in Class I....
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy Mr. Sivakumar I am a lay man so far as the computer language is concerned as 99% of our people are. Pl. explain our people how we can make the Govt. of T.N. to introduce teaching of our language in schools. As you think I am not a fanatic of RR lipi as I am ready to give way for Tamil Script (which will be readily welcome by most of people who send their wards to schools other than following the CBSC/Matriculation/ Central school syllabus /ICSE etc., )also if it suits the convenience of the Govt. and takes further steps in introducing our language in our schools. THE NEED OF THE HOUR IS THE INTRODUCTION OF TEACHING OF SOURASHTRI IN SCHOOLS, BE IT IN NAGARI OR RAMARAI OR TAMIL SCRIPT .PL.TELL A WAY FOR IT. THAT IS ALL MY NEED WHICH ALONE WILL SAVE OUR LANGUAGE FROM BEING USED LESSER AND LESSER LEADING TO ITS EXTINCTION ULTIMATELY.
D.l. Sivakumar Prof. Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy ji, Please be assured, I never ever consider or even think yourself orSubramanian Obula ji as fanatics... I know, you both work very hard and passionate about making our language flourish which is the lifeline for our community's integrity.... Yes, I will write up my proposal with bit more detail (in comparison with Computer "languages") and I believe, this will be a workable solution... I expect PD advocates and SMS will come forward to the discussion on the details... this Compromise formula proposal will help stop bickering between different Lipi advocates which is a characteristic of "either-or" approach.
Prasanna Kumar Setty Better post in Sourashtra madhya shaba group
Prasanna Kumar Setty No use of posting
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy Sevidan kaathil sangu Utinaal mattum Use aakividumaa?Dubai uLLaNiingal veryu eppadi pEsamudiyum?
Prasanna Kumar Setty Bhava, Rbr Ramasubramanian dha responding for all our quires

Any one discussed with them regarding our subject?
D.l. Sivakumar i am planning to discuss this Sri Rbr Ramasubramanian and Sri Eswar Moorthy as well...
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy Mr.Prassanna there many Dr.Jck& Mr.Hydes in our community.If yoare @MDU you can realise the truth.
Rbr Ramasubramanian Prof csk dha, u r senior citizen, use parliamentary words while posting. Practically speaking in a personal capacity, those who are well settled and retired people only talking and fighting lipi issue. See postings for free saree for deepavali and widow women from our samoogam without proper financial help. Sourashtra Madhya Sabha is like central government. Local sabhas and organization are state. Here we are approaching government to get overall benefit to our samoogam.
Rbr Ramasubramanian Because of Sourashtra Madhya Sabha only our Educational Instructions are enjoying Minority. Benefits.
Rbr Ramasubramanian Previous Sourashtra Madhya Sabha taught more than 2000 students in devanagari script. Even somany books prepared. Now also Thirukkural is under print. Compiled by our Prof. Damodaran sir.
Damodaran Thirukkonda Thirukkural is ready to be published in Sourashtri, Tamil, & Devanagari scripts edited by Sri T.G.Dwaraganth and me. I am interested in developing and preserving our mother tongue than lipi. Lipi is no way a hindrance to enrich the language. Nobody in...See More
D.l. Sivakumar
Write a reply...
Rbr Ramasubramanian First of all stop complaint to others. You do whatever you want. from your trust. Nobody will stop you. Because of your approach while Tamilnadu State Minorities Commission meeting, a setback to our community. Eventhough i am young, i request you to please go positive approach, no negative approach since we dont have political, financial and other backgrounds.
Rbr Ramasubramanian From Dindigul Sourashi ad page is coming
Rbr Ramasubramanian Ok. I will ask all members. Ramarai lipi supporters said even Devanagari lipi may be taught in school. Can sourashtra madhya sabha do? They questioned. We are ready to approach the government to teach sourashtra in devanagari script. Can ramarai lipi supporters sign not to oppose or send objection letters to government. Because everytime happened this.
Prasanna Kumar Setty We are not yet clear about which script to be used, then how madhya Sabha will initiate this action
Subramanian Obula Please wait and see who is doing what?
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "Because of Sourashtra Madhya Sabha only our Educational Instructions are enjoying Minority. Benefits"- What do you mean by it? Can you give any proof for your claim. In 1980 I was informed by Late.K. M.Narasihman of Chennai -23 (Ayyanavaram) that it was obtained because of his personal efforts and that too as the then Education Secretary Mr.Rengabhashyam was personally known to him.
Subramanian Obula It is not every time. Only one time it happened in 1969. They stalled Ramarai peoples move to introduce teaching of Sourashtra in Schools.
Afterwards, they have not initiated any action to introduce Sourashtram in Schools....See More
Subramanian Obula tumi School mu sikkaDi devO. ami outside school mu avre lipi sikkaDi devvEsi. konkayo hibbiraas menatte siyengen !
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "Sourashtra Madhya Sabha taught more than 2000 students in devanagari script"- where & when" Pl. furnish the evidence; as an advocate it will not be improper on your part to answer me.
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy " Because of your approach while Tamilnadu State Minorities Commission meeting, a setback to our community.". Do you think that I am so powerful to over ride the SMS in the view of the Commission? In that case it must be that when you are prejudiced against me the Commission must have been FAIR ON THEIR PART. But actually the petitions considered were not related to the one submitted by me. It was with reference to someone else. Why you unnecessarily attack me? I hope you are not a LIAR (as a lawyer)
Rbr Ramasubramanian Subramanian Obulaji, no competition. You please start teaching.
Subramanian Obula Let them give a list of 100 students who studied Sourashtram in Devanagari Scriot.
Let them reveal the names of the Teachers who taught Sourashtram in Devanagari script.
We shall come to know what was done in previous years by the Supreme Body !
Rbr Ramasubramanian No one stopping you to teach Medavi Ramarai lipi. Sarathi lipi followers are going every where and teaching. Please dont mistake me. You people just sitting inthe web and complaining everyone without doing field work. So i request you all please try to take steps to teach ramarai lipi.
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "First of all stop complaint to others" An aggrieved party is entitled to prefer a complaint with the appropriate authorities if some thing goes wrong to the NATURAL JUSTICE. If you refuse for such thing I think you want to act as Louis XIV who claimed "I AM THE STATE"
Subramanian Obula Once We approached the Govt. and made arrangements for teaching in Sourashtram in Sourashtra script by furnishing Reader for Class I.
But the then Headmaster of Sourashtra Hr.Secondary School gave an adverse opinion for our proposal and it was postponed.
Now it is more than 46 years ! The Supreme body could not do anything.
But now it is seen, some action is going to be taken by the Supreme Body.
That is why, we say, we shall wait and see the move of the Supreme Body.
Rbr Ramasubramanian From Dindigul, Saurashi Academy teaching our language in Devanagari scripts
Rbr Ramasubramanian We have not taken any steps in lipi
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "Can ramarai lipi supporters sign not to oppose or send objection letters to government"- will be done subject to the agreement entered by you (SMS) with the other parties , things can be done according to LAW and under a court order.
Rbr Ramasubramanian You people in the discussion said even devanagari script may be taught at school. If u and all agree, we will initiate action. Otherwise as we already said present sabha will not interfere lipi matter. We are for development of our language and samoogam. We are not interested to fight among ourselve that will affect our community development.
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "Sourashi" - what is this language who speaks this. In Dindigul only?
Rbr Ramasubramanian Sorry, Prof.Cskdha, there are lot of other work are there for community development. We already told you in person regarding lipi matter in person.
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "We are not yet clear about which script to be used, then how madhya Sabha will initiate this action" Mr. Prasanna as I have already the issue will remain unsettled so long as one group is adamant in acting against the will OF THE COMMON SOURASHTRA S WHO HAVE NOT SO FAR BEEN APPROACHED IN THIS MATTER. In my personal investigation I found support only for TAMIL script. Why shall not we give option to the Govt. of T.N.which has faced A REVOLT AGANST HINDI( Devanagari SCRIPT ON DISPLAY BOARDS)/
Subramanian Obula Resolution implement kerattak musarani meni kaLaye pharaatu, telle dheri kago vatto kerno?
Implement kertiis vatto kerno meni ami menan hOnaa gaa?
Subramanian Obula "konni pramaadham kan chalanjaariyo nhii" !!!
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy "You people in the discussion said even devanagari script may be taught at school."- Pl reproduce the clause in the agreement and give in public the legal interpretation of the part of the agreement signed by PR group. If you cant' get a clear picture ...See More
Rbr Ramasubramanian I didnt oppose tamil. I clearly explained you in person.
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy What you explained me ? About this? As an ardent supporter of the RR script when I myself come forward to compromise for some sort of arrangement keeping in view the practical solution (keeping in mind the position of the present Govt.of T.N.) why the...See More
Subramanian Obula 95 orsu tokan kaay kerriyo?
1969 rhii kaay kerriyo?
2009 rhii kaay kerriyo?

elle kELvinuk badil avarani !

First telle Supreme Body 1920 rhii kOnak chalto hoy avriyo;
teka Office bearer kan kOn kOn hotiriyo menatte sangandak !
LikeReply23 hrsEdited
D.l. Sivakumar elle savo: Sri Damodaran Thirukkonda wrote: Thirukkural is ready to be published in Sourashtri, Tamil, & Devanagari scripts edited by Sri T.G.Dwaraganth and me. I am interested in developing and preserving our mother tongue than lipi. //Lipi is no way a hindrance to enrich the language.// Nobody instructed Sri Nayakiayar to write in Tamil script and to Venkatasuri to write in Sourashtri / Telugu script and so on to other writers. If anybody really interested in language, pl. try to bring out the unpublished manuscripts held up with Sourashtra Sabha, Madurai....
LikeReply23 hrs
D.l. Sivakumar kago marchi marchi finger-point kerli shakti puuraak virayam kerli sEtte... let's stop the either-or approach... let's agree together on a Compromise formula where each Lipi can "Live and let others live"... Computer programming "languages" (CPL), which is equivalent to Lipi, shows us that possibility... Look at computer professional whose resume will have at least 3 or 4 CPLs (Java, C, COBOL, etc) on an average... Similarly every CPL teaching institutions don't restrict with one CPL... They offer multiples.... We (collectively all Lipi advocates of Sourashtra language) should stop try to compete with other by chopping off others' head in order to show ourselves taller.... I sincerely believe, we have room for coexistence for at least 3 Lipis, at this point... Number Tamil (NT) which is what most of the Sourashtrian's are familiar and easy to input in computer unicode with numbering. This NT gets fairly close in pronunciation to our language.... Next, based on the past decisions, Devanagari (DN) was considered... however, its familiarity is next to Tamil script and also missing many sounds of Sourashtra (especially Kuril sounds) which would lead to many confusion and not suitable of any literary work that leads to modification of DN to PD but PD is not easy to input in the computer like DN... That leaves us to Sri Ramarai (RR) script which of course, was developed for us and so match 100% phonetics and of course very small base due to lack of past support. It is Unicoded but still not all browsers support.... With agreeing on this 3 Lipi approach, I think, it will benefit the users in learning more Lipis and also will stop competing with each other...
LikeReply23 hrsEdited
Chinnakkonda Subburamaiyer Krishnamoorthy Mr.Sivakuamr, Every learned Sourashtra will acc ept what you say. My doubt is if it is possible to introduce teaching of Sourashtri in L.K.G/U.K.G./ I Std.,in elementary schools which is the need of the hour following the method you suggest?. As I already told you , I can't follow what actually say.But one thing is clear to me; you are suggesting a way to put a full stop to the unnecessary Lipi problem. To that extent well and good. I appreciate your sincere love to our mother tongue. If this spirit is born in the minds of every sourashtra youth the problem will come to an end in no time.

6 comments :

  1. Saurashi Academy is an institution, run by Saurashtri Development Association in Dindigul. We teach Saurastri alas Saurashi in devanagari scripts. The word Saura, Saurasho, Saurashi all are used in T.M.R and RR users. The SDA will publish first Tamil Saurastri - Saurashtri Tamil Dictionary and later Saurastri English -English Saurashtri Dictionary.

    ReplyDelete
  2. The link for Unicode for Extended (Parivartith) Devanagari is - unicode.org/charts/PDF/UA8E0.pdf. This was prepared by Unicode Cosortium in 1991. The Varnamala for Sourashtri was prepared by CIIL based on this Unicode. (You may Google - 'Extended Devanagari Unicode'.

    ReplyDelete
  3. SCRIPT FOR SOURASHTRA LANGUAGE
    A comparison of different scripts being used for Sourashtra language.
    1. History
    a.Rama Rai script. - Created / developed by Medhavi Sri Rama Rai 139 years back based on Lakshmanacharya script
    b. Tamil - Ancient Dravidian script
    c. Devanagari - This is a very ancient script used for nearly 125 languages. The 'Extended (Parivartith) Devanagari' Unicode (unicode.org/charts/PDF/UA8E0.pdf) was finalised by Unicode Consortium in 1991 incorporating letters /signs for use of all languages. This was taken as the base to prepare the new Varnamala for Sourashtra language by CIIL. This script was declared/ adopted by Sourashtra community on 8th Aug. 2009 at a huge convention at Palayamkottai (Tamilnadu).
    d. English (Roman) script - International script used by several languages like English, German, French etc. This script is being used by Sourashtra Netizens in the Internet.
    (contd)

    ReplyDelete
  4. (contd)
    2. Progress in usage.
    a. Rama Rai Script - In the 19th century the original Sourashtra script was not available due to historical reasons. Sourashtra Saints like Srimad Venkataramana Bhagavathar and Kavi Sri Venkata Suri used Telugu script. Sri Natana Gopala Nayaki Swami used Tamil script. Geetha Sadhavadhani Sri T.R. Padmanabhaiyer (and some others) used Devangari script.
    Sri Rama Rai created his script and spent his life savings inpropagating this script. A large number of students learnt the script
    His Shishya parampara continued with Sri Venkatachala Sarma, Sri O.K. Ramanadam and his disciples like Sri T.V.Kubendran (Bhashabhmani), Sri O.S. Subramanian (Sourashtra Vidya Peetam), Sri Mohan Ruppa (Shresta Sourashtra Sahitya Sabha), Sri Tada Subramanian (Bhasha Samman awardee), Sri K.R.Sethuraman( Bhasha Samman Awardee), Sri Kasin Anandam,Sri M.S.Ramani, Sri C.R.Saranath, Sri T.G.Dwaraganath and many others.
    Sri Rama Rai was honoured and life time pension was paid to him by the community. Later his statue was put up in a temple at Madurai and his script was written on the temple wall.
    A change came about in 1920 when the community decided to preserve Rama Rai script, but to use Devanagari script for all practical purposes. This was reaffirmed in 1981 and more recently in 2009 convention at Palayamkottai.
    The usage of this script has been coming down over the years, in spite of all attempts by its supporters.
    Other than Sri Rama Rai himself, no other writer/author/scholar/composer(like Nayaki Swamin) utised this script for their compositions/creations.
    b. Tamil script - As maximum Sourashtra population is in Tamilnadu which follows two language policy, there has been no scope for learning our mother tongue in schools. Our students learn Tamil well and use it for all purposes. So many of our writers use Tamil script for writing in our language with numbers/ supersripts for pronunciations which are not available in Tamil script. Sri Tada Subramanian wrote his books in Tamil script and was awarded 'Bhasha Samman'. The journal 'Bhashabhimani' started 40 years back with sole purpose of propagating our language in Rama Rai script used 50% contents in Tamil script. In due course the proportion of Tamil has increased to 98% with Rama Rai script usage only 2% ,( as seen in the latest Deepavali special issue).
    This indicates the degree of support to Rama Rai script even from abhimaanis of this script, leave alone the general public (especially the youth) who are not coming forward to learn it either in personal classes or through the Internet. And their parents also do not encourage them to learn this script as they feel that there is no practical utility in learning this script and the time can be spent more usefully to learn Devanagari (which is the script of Hindi,our National Official language, very useful for going to any part of India for their career).
    (contd)

    ReplyDelete
  5. c. Sourashtri (Parivartith Devanagari) - This script has been used for Sourashtra Bhagavad Geetha by Sri T.R. Padbhanabaiyer and by Sri Venkatachala Sarma to transliterate Sri Rama Rai's literature.
    After 2009 Declaration, the Sourashtri Prachar Sabha printed a text book and held classes for school students at many places in and around Madurai, making use of the teachers trained by CIIL in their workshops held at Madurai and Mysore (as requested by our community representatives). Hundreds of students who learnt this script were given certificates in a function at Madurai attended by several Sourashtra representatives.
    The Saurashi Academy at Dindigul has printed text books for classes 1 to 5 and is regularly conducting classes followed by issue of certificates. They are starting a Diploma course also.
    The Saurashi Academy is bringing out a daily Newsletter in this script. They have also published a number of Text books and other books.
    'MET VAKH, SHEEL VAAT' , a book in poetry has been written Sourashtri and Tamil scripts by Sri A. K.R. Subramanian of Dindigul based on Tamil poet Avvaiyaar' s 'Nalvazhi' and 'Muudurai'.
    Sri Ravi Kondda is regularly writing about our scriptures and giving Bhagavad Geetha slokas in three languages/scripts including Sourashtri script.
    ( I had also written the word by word translation (Padavurai) in English for a number of chapters of Bhagavad Geetha of Sri T.R.Padmanabhaiyer in Sourashtri (Devanagari script) which were posted in 'Palkar.org' a few years back).
    d. English/Roman - This is mostly used in Internet. Sri O.S.Subramanian and Sri K.V.Pathy started a thread 'Sourashtam moTTum' in 'palkar.org' a decade back. It caught up and now majority of our Netizens are posting in our language using English script. Sri O.S.S. prepared a simplified 'Notation' for this purpose and Sri K.V.Pathy further elaborated it by writing 'EASY LESSONS' (www.kvpathy.blogspot.com).
    4. Advantages / Arguments in favour of the scripts -
    a. Rama Rai script -
    This script was specifically prepared by Sri Rama Rai in the 19th century, in the absence of letters for the special pronunciations of our language (nasal sound, half yakaaram, short 'e' and 'o') in other scripts. This is considered as our own script and we get 'guruttu' (Identity) and 'Ghenam' (respect) by using this script. In fact this was learnt and used by thousnds in his time and later also. Even now there are hundreds of people who know this script. It is used by some people for printing the wedding invitations and Panchangam.
    A conference was held at Dindigul (TERKE MILNI) a few years back to encourage awareness and learning of Rama Rai script.
    b. Tamil - This is known to all Sourashtraas in Tamilnadu ( though not in other States). This is extensively used for writing and printing books in our language. Many books like Sri T.R.P.'s Bhagavad Geetha were transliterated into Tamil script and these versions are selling more than Devanagari versions.
    'Bhashabhimani' also uses Tamil script for more than 95% of its contents to suit the readers.
    c. Sourshtri(Parivartith Devanagari). -
    This script has caught the fancy of our youth and their parents due to the following advantages.
    1. By learning our mother tongue in Devanagari script, we can also learn Hindi (our Official/National language). This will facilitate our youth to have vast scope for employment and commerce in all States of India. If requied, Sanskrit,our language of scriptures can also be learnt. ( In fact it is said that around 125 languages use Devanagari or related scripts).
    Devanagari is the descendant of our earlier ancient scripts (Evolution of scripts) and is own script for our Indo Aryan language, Sourashtram.
    )contd)

    ReplyDelete
  6. (contd)
    d. English (Roman) script -
    This is the International script and has been used for numerous languages. Our Sourashtras abroad and in other States of India find it easy to use this script for writing our language (subject to their learning correct usage to suit the pronunciations).
    5. Popularity of different scripts -
    In a recent Sample survey conducted in the Internet (Askbypoll) in Sourashtra Face Book groups and websites, to find out the choice of script for teaching in schools, the voting percentage was as below-
    1. Sourashtri (Parivartith Devanagari) - 58 %
    2. Tamil / other State languages - 26%
    3. Rama rai script - 8%
    4. English (Roman) - 8%
    K.V.Pathy
    unicode.org
    UNICODE.ORG

    (contd)

    ReplyDelete